LEAP : Since its opening, PSA has organized numerous exhibitions around French culture and art. What perspectives do these exhibitions offer to our understanding of contemporary French culture, and to our reflection on contemporary Chinese art?

GONG Yan: French artists and men of letters have often shown a fascination for uncertainty, like Baudelaire, who said he was a stranger in an unknown land, not knowing who his parents were or where his homeland was, and being fascinated only by the clouds. Our collaboration with France was not deliberate, but I think that this temperament of French art is very conducive for a young contemporary art institution like PSA. Contemporary art in China has developed in a relatively short period of time, and has forged its own very rocky path. There have been many misinterpretations, and a lot of self-creation. That is why, instead of presenting or importing foreign ideas in a scholastic manner, we want to open people’s minds – always in a state of trial and error, learning to experiment with these ideas first, and then create their own language.

French contemporary art is, to a certain extent, undervalued internationally. Indeed, while French modern and classical art has influenced the whole world, French contemporary artists do not seem to want to “internationalize”. Or perhaps for them, borders do not exist, and their own world is in fact a global concept. This is why I sometimes feel that Chinese contemporary art, when it thinks in terms of borders and talks about ‘exporting’ or ‘importing’ ideas from abroad – as it so often does – can hinder the emergence and development of art, including the reflection of artists in their creative process. Indeed, these boundaries might not actually exist.

LEAP : PSA’s inaugural exhibition presented the Centre Pompidou’s Surrealist collection, at a time when the Centre Pompidou had not yet begun its own global expansion and it was rare for China to host major international art exhibitions like this one. Why did you choose the Centre Pompidou collection? What were the key factors that made this cooperation possible, when PSA did not yet have an exhibition space and did not have its own collection?

GONG Yan: The creation of the Shanghai Museum of Contemporary Art was closely linked to the city’s urban and cultural planning at the time, which aimed to establish a comprehensive infrastructure network in the field of visual arts. At the time, Shanghai lacked a space dedicated to contemporary art. Taking inspiration from the major cultural institutions of London and Paris, we decided to transform the Pavilion of the Future of the World Expo [Shanghai hosted the World Expo in 2010] into a contemporary art museum, and the Centre Pompidou became our model.

But this exhibition could not be a flash in the pan: the works had to not only reflect the trends in Chinese contemporary art, but also inspire young Chinese artists. However, surrealism is not a doctrinaire movement; what it seeks to eliminate is precisely what is politicized and ideological. It emphasizes appearances, dreams and love, and as such it belongs to youth. A new museum of contemporary art must be oriented towards the future and youth, and as the urban atmosphere and state of mind of Shanghai at the time were full of confidence and very much in tune with surrealism, we began to approach the Centre Pompidou.

Despite the fact that our exhibition venue was a former factory that had just hosted the World Expo, the Centre Pompidou accepted our invitation. The curators at the time wanted to experiment with the Surrealist exhibition in China, breaking with traditional methods to transform the exhibition into a form of street art. This inaugural exhibition ultimately became the prototype for the exhibition on surrealism held at the Centre Pompidou two years later. However, the French side’s understanding of the ecology of the Chinese audience and artists was so limited at the time that the initial list of proposed works was relatively standardized and formatted. In response, we expressed the desire to include more representative works of art. Therefore, far from being a simple presentation of a foreign collection, our cooperation with the Centre Pompidou has also been a mutual process of learning and experimentation.

LEAP : By “lightness”, you don’t just mean a way of getting things done quickly, but also an attitude that consists of keeping a young and contemporary outlook and being open to novelty, right?

GONG Yan: Yes, it means not having preconceived ideas or too many prejudices. If contemporary art is constantly evolving, how many institutions are truly ready to embrace these changes? People often prefer to stay in their comfort zone. When an organization develops and acquires a reputation, it can find it difficult to renew itself. But at this stage, in order to be able to remain truly “light”, you have to be courageous and continue to experiment, remain open to mistakes and to questioning.

LEAP : The pandemic and the concomitant changes in the global political and economic situation stalled international dialogue for a period of time. Yet, there was a significant increase in the number and scale of international exhibitions organized by PSA during this same period. Was this intentional?

GONG Yan: I think it reflects a certain desire. As a major art institution, our mission is to open people’s eyes to the possibilities available to them. Bringing in foreign artists is not just about presenting their work, it’s also about introducing them to China. The exchange has to be a two-way street, and that’s what makes it interesting.

During the pandemic, we organized the 13th Shanghai Biennale, entitled “Bodies of Water.” Only two foreign artists were able to come to China [due to health restrictions], and only one main curator—out of the five members of the curatorial team—was able to work on Chinese soil, following a long quarantine. Despite the difficulties encountered by the team, we all came out stronger. It was truly a shared experience – no longer a one-way spectacle, but a profound life experience, far exceeding the field of art in its narrowest sense.

During this period of “stagnation”, the voices of artists have been heard much less than one might have thought. Previously, many artists had shown themselves ready to create and express themselves in the face of extraordinary phenomena. But during this unprecedented period, artists have given very little thought, whether in China or the rest of the world. But art should not be created for the mere pursuit of an idea. If one is afraid to express oneself when something happens, one betrays the courage, attitude and perspectives that artists once prided themselves on. I therefore think that the pandemic has been a good opportunity for people to reflect on the real role of art, and on the part of truth and “falseness” that it can contain.

LEAP : 2024 marks the 60th anniversary of the establishment of diplomatic relations between France and China. On this occasion, twenty years after introducing the French public to contemporary Chinese art through the flagship exhibition “What about China?”, the Centre Pompidou is once again focusing on contemporary Chinese art in the fall of 2024, presenting 21 artists born between the 1970s and 1990s. To what extent do you think this type of group exhibition of Chinese artists has an impact on their visibility and recognition at the international level?

GONG Yan: Twenty years ago, Western countries took turns to “take care” of the cultures of third world countries, organizing exhibitions focused on countries or regions of the world. China was one of the most represented countries at that time. Twenty years later, we have experienced globalization, epidemics, and we have begun to doubt globalization. In an era of information that transcends geographical boundaries, we imagine, experience and communicate more directly with each other.

Today, we must consider how to translate the Chinese artists’ reflection on the current world through an international exhibition in a national cultural institution, and how the artist’s free will as an individual can be understood in different cultural contexts without being interpreted in a narrow and stereotypical way. Twenty years ago, during the “What about China?” exhibition at the Centre Pompidou, the West did not know much about contemporary Chinese art; but today, the world has a wide variety of channels for learning about China, and solo exhibitions of Chinese artists abroad are very common. Organizing a new group exhibition of contemporary Chinese artists raises many expectations regarding the depth of the subject matter, the uniqueness of the artists and the necessity of the works, and I think the work of the curators is very different from that done twenty years ago.

LEAP : In the twelve years since the creation of PSA, what observations have you made about the evolution of exchanges between China and the rest of the world?

GONG Yan: In the past, it was very difficult for Chinese artists to make themselves known on the international scene and they had to resort to various means or intermediaries to travel abroad. Today, Shanghai has nearly a hundred art museums, half of which are devoted to contemporary art, and international exchanges are frequent. To a certain extent, Chinese artists can participate in international exhibitions without having to travel abroad. However, this convenience can lead to a certain inertia among artists, or make them too comfortable. Furthermore, in China, some mistakenly see internationalization as a kind of “enemy”; yet for meaningful works to emerge, art needs constant stimulation, even provocation. As a global art ecosystem takes shape, we need to think about how to foster the development of art itself.

I also hope that foreign institutions that are interested in Shanghai will not only focus on the capital available to the city, or on the possibility of organizing large-scale exhibitions there, but will also see its academic potential, and be willing to offer the best possible stage for Chinese artists. This requires the joint efforts of the entire city or country. Above all, we must recognize our value and be ready to help powerful artists find a wider audience. Of course, this also requires a lot of translation and theoretical support to help them make themselves understood. All efforts in this area are of the utmost importance.